Rose: Can you introduce yourself to our readers please? They are just dying to get to know you. Champing at the bit so to speak.

Andres: Yes my name is Andres Alejandro Chavez. I was born in and am originally from Caracas, Venezuela. I moved here to the United State, in Chicago in 2013 to go to school for visual communications, mostly graphic design and some photography. I currently do graphic design and photography professionally. I also consider myself a visual artist at least in terms of exhibit design and stuff like that. In the past I have primarily focused on my work as a street photographer. Now, I am working on mixing together my past interest and work in with my work in photojournalism. In pursuit of my passion for both communication and photography, to inject a “use” to the art that I love to make with the ultimate goal of giving a voice to those without one.

Carina: Jack of all trades over here.

R: Given all of your travels, what brought you to Albany Park specifically?

A: I moved to the city, I had absolutely no money and no connection to the city besides one friend. I landed in Hyde Park at an apartment with this one old dude with dementia. But no one told me, or seemingly him that he had it. So it ended up being a situation of constant gaslighting where he would tell me something one day and have no memory of the conversation the next. After that, my friend needed to also get out of his living situation and we moved together to not quite Albany Park but to like Damen and Ainslie. Like the Lincoln square, Albany Park, Ravenswood area. 

C: Ah yes, the Lawrence bus. *nodding knowingly*

A: Oh yea. My life is literally along Lawrence. So then I moved a couple times, trying to find a neighborhood that is both affordable, close to things, and has a really good community, and I eventually ended up here in AP, a neighborhood with both latinos and habibis. Which is perfect for me. 

R: What first drew you to the Albany Park Free Store? What did that first day that you came in look like?

A: Well. I didn’t want to get involved at first because it sounded like too much responsibility. I don’t like committing to things, but my roommate suggested that we should do it. And I said no. But I always say that I’m not going to do something and end up doing it anyway. Haha. So I went to the free store. It’s also a block from where I live so it was really easy to get involved.

R: After that initial day, why did you decide to keep coming back?

A: Boredom. I wanted to keep myself busy with side projects. But also, I wanted to get involved in the community where I lived. I think that is so important really. You know, as an anarchist I’ve always believed in that you can’t depend on authority to fix your life, you just have to do it. If you have any extra energy then you should put that back into your community. I also carry like a burden, a feeling where since I have had so many people help me in my life in the past, that I feel this massive responsibility to pay it back to others. The DIY thing like at the freestore is the best way to do that and to fight capitalism. The whole thing also is that it already exists and I could easily join in. 

R: How did you feel like you fit in? Or start to get to know people?

A: Being from Venezuela, I speak Spanish so I feel like at times, I can be an effective communicator. That’s where my skills fit the most, like I can guide people through the processes there, and I am also good with logistics. I tend to be able to think of the positives, negatives, and how to complete a task in a way that takes everything into account. I think those are the skills that I can bring into the space, to be of use. While I am very terrible at organizing and sorting, I make up for this with “Tall” and I can lift things and put things down. So to answer your question that’s how I found a way to fit in there. 

C: Legggggsssssss hahaha

R: yessssss. Legsssss.

A: Yes. Long legs and boredom. Those are my two superpowers. Hahaha.

R: Yesss, that’s awesome. Haha. Ok so I think we’re going to move in a bit of a different direction now and talk a bit more in depth about your photography. Starting from the beginning, how did you first become interested in photography?

A: This might be long, haha, I apologize. It all started in 2010, when there was a massive earthquake in Haiti. There was a photo of a girl in a red dress, roughly 10 years old who had been killed in the quake. People were trying to take advantage of the situation or taking things out of desperation, not trying to cast judgment on that, but in the photo, people were walking past her with stuff in their hands as she lay on the floor. Then, there was another photo that came alongside that one, that showed the same girl on the ground but with a line of between 11 and 15 photographers that were all taking the same photograph of the girl on the floor and the people looting. So, I have always been drawn into those ethical and moral dilemmas that question “how do you tell a story?” how do you tell the story in a way that is ethical, and in a way that represents it? In a way that does justice to the story, its truth, but does not try to fit this capitalist ideal or framework that encourages yellow journalism or exaggerating the truth to force emotion out of it, simply for the sake of that one specific narrative and for profit. Anyway after seeing that photo, I was like “Holy shit.” I wanted to be able to navigate these types of questions. So the year before I came to the US, I was able to go on a trip to a native tribe of Venezuelans located in the middle of the Amazon, where we had to go to the Oranacu river, and 5 hours down we came to the little town, that was built to kind of float on the river as it rose and fell. I got to go there and meet the people, and taking photos of them and the way they live in their community. While I feel I am usually a fairly shy person, having a camera with me that day gave me a reason to be there, meet people, hear their story and then tell it. That’s where it began. 

Then when I came to the US, my intention was to originally go to school for journalism. While that didn’t work out, about 4 years ago I was getting back into photography, focusing mostly on street photography, documenting Chicago, the culture, things that were happening. While I had been doing this, Isreal then began their genocidal campaign in Gaza, and I started documenting the protests. Then documenting the protests meant I was documenting police brutality, and documenting police brutality meant documenting the migrant crisis, and while I hate that phrasing, it involved many of my people being here. I would speak to them and then take their photos, in a way that share their story and humanize them, which is the ultimate goal. Humanizing people and showing that their stories matter. That they matter. That what keeps me doing this work. 

R: so you mentioned street photography and wanting to tell peoples stories. Do you have a specific artistic practice or process when you start seeking out subject or people to cover, like deciding whose stories to tell?

A: Its difficult really. Because as a street photographer, one of my mentors in street photography used to tell me “There are no rules in street photography. You just have to do it.” You basically walk around, take in the space, take in the people. Take in the culture, take in the moment. But then when you go into journalism, there are very clear rules that you set for yourself, that also are ethical but also help develop your credibility as a communicator. I always try to show something that feels real. I don’t go for hyper-curated or trends, or something that is even necessarily aesthetically pleasing. And I don’t know how this will seem on the record…

C: is this on the record?? Haha

A: well I haven’t said off the record, so im leaving it to you to screw me over if you want haha. 

C: hahahaaaa. 

A: my whole life is a bunch of self-imposed rules that I set for myself. I set rules for myself that as a street photographer that I wouldn’t take photos of very attractive women, homeless people, or people with very severe disabilities. 

C: mmm

A: I think it is kind of exploitative, in the way ive seen it. It weird because any kind of street photography or even journalism will be to some degree exploitative. You kind of have to take it. If there is someone crying because they are shook, do I take that photo. Its interesting because that is something that I have to decide in the moment. Do I take the photo? Do I press the shutter? If there is someone going through the worst days of their life? As either a street photographer or journalist. But I think that as a street photographer if I take a photo of highly attractive young women or attractive men, homeless, or people with disabilities, it might be a little too easy. To evoke an emotion, so it feels exploitative because im putting the effort into doing something. I would Just be grabbing something that is there that will evoke an emotion and using it. So I feel its unfair on my end to be doing something like that. 

R: so I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but its too easy for you?

A: so this is where you get into this ethical conversation. I was doing a workshop and my editors told me to do a story on this young 28 year old man with severe learning disabilities. Coming in from the perspective of a street photographer and I said I have this rule where I don’t take pictures of these three groups of people. That’s when my editor said “oh are you saying that these young attractive women’s stories then are not worth telling?” who the fuck are you to say whos story is not worth telling? Who are to say that that homeless man or disabled person’s story isn’t worth telling. That being said, when you are photojournalist you are an advocate for your story. That’s how I see it, I am advocate for the person whos story I am telling. So doing it from a place of fairness, a place of honesty, a place of goodness, its extremely important, and that’s though where a lot of people fall short. Conversely, in street photography, one of my mentors called it emotional pickpocketing, because you are just going there and grabbing moments

C: like what you want to see?

A: yes. You can frame things, you can use it see whatever you want, but I just feel like I don’t want to 1. With young women or men, I don’t want to be creepy. 

C and R: haha

A: its weird, and im not saying doing that with someone who is not attractive is not creepy, but it’s a weird thing, I don’t know its like low hanging fruit. I don’t know if that’s that right way to say it. Its really difficult having this conversation and saying it in a way that conveys the full like ethical considerations that go into it. But I just don’t want to be one of those Instagram weirdos who just take photos of attractive women or men just to get their information or to be creepy. I am looking for a bigger documentation of the zeitgeist, the cultural movement that is happening. Like taking a picture of an unhoused person, you are not taking a photo of that person you are taking a photo of that person’s situation. And that is exploitative, to me. And it invokes like this, its like taking a picture of someone who is dead on the street. as a photojournalist I have to take that photo, as a street photographer I don’t have to take that photo. So that is where it’s a duality. And I ask which hat am I wearing? And even though things overlap, I have to walk that line whenever I am doing any photos. 

R: who is the mentor you mentioned earlier?

A: Oh! I have so many mentors, its amazing. It’s a bunch of incredible women photo artists. My main photography mentor is Denise Kind, she studied at the center of photojournalism at Chicago. An in- fuckin- credible street photographer. And then Raven Gury, from Unravelled, shes been such a big help in navigating and learning how to tell a story, learning how to investigate a story, learning how to craft, and see and having conversations about journalism and the line between journalism and activism. I have Lauren Miranda, who was my visual arts/graphic design mentor, who taught me when I was learning how to navigate spaces where you have to communicate with an image. I would claim those three as my main mentors. Shes also a professor at NEIU right here on Foster.

R: oh nice. Lets take a break! And get another drink

C and R: AND WELCOME BACK. Heheheh

A: wow that was really impressive. 

R: that was our transition

C: mmm sweetest rose. why the maniacal laughhh, nooo I dropped my cherry……

R: ok so we talked inspiration. 

C: wait I did want to specifically want to know, about other artistic inspirations do you have? Any type of art! Less tough?

A: Yes. So yes that’s the cool thing. Talking as more of visual artist, truly anything is inspiration. Like movies. When you watch a movie, its funny like, you can start deconstructing everything. Concepts, visual elements etc. so that’s one of the coolest things, is that everything or anything can be inspiration. Like you can steal the parts that give inspiration from anything. Like you can steal the tone in a scene from a movie, you can steal a color palette from a particular painter. You can steal the viewpoint in a photo from a photographer that you like. 

C: what is your favorite artist? What im hearing is that life is your inspiration hahah. 

A: life is my inspiration haha. 

C: see this is why I cant start. Hahahaha

A: nono. But seriously though. I can look at whenever I do street photography, I try to do black and white photography. But I am very inspired by a baroque artist, Caravaggio, who has very interesting shadow play, where figures are coming out of the shadows. 

R: yessss. C: cool. 

A: There is William klein, who did very gritty photography, showing the reality of life. 

R: Chirascuro! The shadows. 

A: yess cirascuro. (properly pronounced)

C: You are so smart. 

A: So ya you can take multiple things. I would say Caravagio, I would say William Klein, I would say Robert Frank, who is another photographer. He has these photography essays/ book called the Americans. (Originally from Switzerland, lived in Canada), he traveled across America and tooks all of these unfiltered photographs of this country trying to get at and show the essence of this country, like what is this country? So ya I can find inspiration from that photo of the girl in Haiti, like the concept of that photo. Being able to look at that photo from different perspective, through the lens of a photographer and then also through the lens of a spectator. So I would say there is, not to be cliché and say everything can be inspiring, but it is like truly you can deconstruct and analyze everything and use that to communicate better. 

R: and then, so we were discussing things that while there are no rules there are things you chose to never photograph. when you are looking at a particular subject that you want to photograph, what are you drawn to? like what are you looking at it in? what lens? 

A: Yeah...i think (sigh). So, im not sure, thats.....blabbers a bit...

I do have this theory that photography, street photography and even journalism, is very instinctual. Because you can look at something and then say something is going to happen here. And then you have the camera and youre looking at what you think is going to happen. There's an artist, I forget how to say his name, briton? something briton? i will get murdered by someone, a photographer here, for saying this

C: do it

A: his whole thing is talking about the decisive moment, the peak of an action, that is what you are there to capture. So lets say someone is jumping over a puddle, which is one of his most famous photographs, and its the moment where the person is floating, the person is suspended, gravity doesn't exist. That is the specific moment. If you see him going up, you're like oh this person is going up. If you see him going down, then it breaks his illusion. But there is like one... a sweet spot where the person is floating. Knowing and figuring out where to stand, where to be, the camera settings that are right for it, that is what every street photographer is looking for, that decisive moment.

for me, I just go..., there is always something. it is really interesting because i will take..., 

every single photo that i take... 

there is something in there that speaks to me as a human. granted 95% of my photos are trash, they are terrible and i delete them or i dont use them but every time I take a photo its because there is something.

R: would you say that it's that decisive moment?

A: its either a decisive moment or something that speaks to humanity. c: hmm

it could be, i could start throwing words like the human condition, but its something that speaks to the human conditions. one of my favorite photos that ive taken is these two kids just sitting down. i was walking, i see them sitting there, i ask their parents if i can take a photo of them, they say yes, i take the photo and i walk away. but that is a photo that lives in my head because i thought it was a wonderful moment that spoke to my humanity. and someone else may say that is a terrible photo, or like...i dont care, but that moment really spoke to me and i was able to capture it because of that.

let me see if i can find it so i can show it to you

R: yeah you need to send that to us C: giggle

R: So you mentioned also working with Unraveled with Raven and stuff. You have been doing street photography or slash journalism of protests. I was wondering how does looking for that subject change when you are doing protests or I guess journalism in general?

A: I don't only work for unraveled, i work for other ...(something?). i am technically an independent photo journalist, a freelancer so i will...you know (? no i dont)

But yeah its very different because when i am doing street photography i dont think there are any rules, i can frame things how ever i want to frame them, i can take photos of people that are not necessarily true to the moment but it is a moment that happened. I don't delete things in the photos. I only have to think about the visual elements that i am capturing and the moment it's self and however I want to frame it. Its more live a movie, I'm trying to tell a story, I'm trying to figure out a way of presenting something, but i don't necessarily have to be true to the moment. I would like to be true to the essence of the moment, to the humanity of the moment, but i dont have to be true to the .... you know like??...to the ....its not a story of what has happened that i am telling, its a story that I am telling, period (.)

when i am doing journalism, i do have to think of it as like if you see this photo without context, is it hiding something? can this photo be used to tell the opposite side of what i am trying to tell. those are the considerations that i have to take. I want to be at the right place at the right time to tell it correctly in a way that is true to the story. to what really happened. because that is what i am doing there, i am recording an event. i am recording something that i am (?). it is easy when it comes to words but you have to be able to take that photo and it has to be able to stand by itself or by you know... 

C:alone

A: yeah

R: do you feel like....uhm..when...do you think you, when, i had a question about. never mind. sorry go ahead

C: go ahead

R: no sorry it escaped me, i lost it

C: maybe it will come back

R: yeah (jazz music) 

we try to wait for it to come back for... kinda a long time

C: anything? it didnt come back?

R: no , it didnt come back. lets just move on

A: okay

R:do you feel like it changes when you are capturing a particular moment or what is happening in that second as a jouranlist, do you feel it changes anything while you are in a protest in particular

OH wait here is what i was going to say C:yayay 

R: so you said you are an advocate for your subjects as a street photographer, do you feel the same way when you are photographing protests and movements

A: when i am doing that, so to kind of to like...corect....whenever i am doing street photography that'ss for myself, i am taking photos of how i see the event happening. when i am taking photos as a photo journalist i am an advocate for the story. im an advocate for... whatever that means. so if i am doing a story for someone, i like to think of myself of an advocate for the subject or an advocate for what is happening. and my job is to tell that truthfully and honestly and ethically and what not. so when it comes to...one of my biggest examples would be...there was this protest that happened in 

(clinking glasses) 

by lake shore drive where one of the palestinian protests...at one point...the protestors rushed and took over lake shore drive 

R: word

A: you said you where there, were you?

R: no no. i was studying for finals

A: ahhhhh

R: and I was with my friend in their study room by one of the high rises from there and i was watching it happen and saw them rush lsd and i said oh shit that is crazy and i asked my friend if we should go there and she said nooo study dumbass

C: hahahha like okay yeah u were almost done with schoooolll hahaha

A: that is the most bougie thing there ever heard you said...you were drinking champagne

C: popping bottles

R: well i was also suffering soooooo

A: yeahhhhh.....so anyways, that whole thing.....it was a couple hours extremely peaceful. and then like 15 min of mayhem and the rest of the 2 hours it was just peaceful just people walking around lsd they went around the park twice and then everyone went home. but i have a couple of very very dramatic shots from those 15 min and so if i were to tell the story of that day, you know?

C: i see

A: i would not be able to show the more dramatic photos without taking photos of....

like... i spent the whole day taking photos of dogs because nothing happened all day besides 15 min

C: dogs love palestine too

R: thats true

A: and ducks! there was a guy that was walking with ducks

C: oh wait this is from that (has pictures of ducks)

R: oooooohhhhhhh that is a really good picture thooooo

everyone looks thru pictures for awhile

bartender comes to give andres another drink cuz she fucked up the first one

A: so i have these photos of mayhem of police officers encountering protestors but does this tell the story of.....what happened?

C: of dogs!

A: because it was only 5 in of 6 hours? so how do you go about?? I am an advocate for the story...i cannot show those photos without showing the context of ....the story

rose and carina looking thru photos talking about how good they are

talking about not swiping on peoples phones

A: you can swipe

looking at photos of dogs

A: of dogs and some ducks

rose and carina SCREAMING about dogs and ducks

ALL FOR PALESTINE

hes wearing a little thingggg hes wearing slacks

its sooooo cuteeeeeeeeee 

i love ittttttttt

A: you guys are going to say fuck all the other photos i have

we just want the ducks

C: yeah but that is so real though damn

A: you know what I am saying tho?

C: yeah you could manipulate that into something

A: yeah i could manipulate it!!!! 

and those photos, as photos, they could stand by themselves, but as a story they don't stand...they don't hold up to the scrutiny of just the one photo to represent what had happened that day without showing that 90% of the day was just sitting down, so i was like bored taking photos of dogs.

R: cutest giggle ever.....yeah

C: its kinda like the essence of organizing

R: yeah i mean....can you stand like going to your 5th meeting in a fucking week or something and just sit there

c: and take pictures of dogs

R: Yeah....I guess i have a couple that are kind of related. When you are covering a protest. and you're taking pictures of people who may be breaking the law or doing something that is not necessarily....

and while youre an advocate for what is ....

or maybe not being represented well in a photo or something...

like if you're an advocate for truth which is obviously a very important job or purpose...

i am wondering how you treat your subjects.

in that regard. are there considerations for what youre...

A: aaaaggggrrrhhhh that is such a tough question to answer...that is a really really tough question to answer. because in reality i am also an activist i try to make a separation when i am covering as a journalist...that being said its really difficult to say... that.... i don't sympathize. 

if i wasn't there with a camera i would be there wearing all black. you know what i am saying? its really tough. 

i lot of that I will leave to my editors. 

Like for example when I went to MN I was working with Raven with Unraveled because i was there to cover for Unraveled and she is very cautious of that. She is very aware of how we present the activists, not necessarily trying to hide or anything but its like you don't have to show someones face to show what is happening. 

especially in a world of surveillance. In a world... in a country where right now... there is retaliation for anyone that is not following this Zionist agenda. Then there can be repercussions to that. So there are considerations that go into that. I think that German newspapers will like literally block people's faces, will censor peoples faces and what not. I dont necessarily think that is the best way to go about it. i hope i dont get cancelled for saying this but i think that if you are planning on doing stuff like that you should cover your face. anything that i am taking a photo of theres already another camera taking a photo of them.

C:yeah like the fucking streets

A: yeah were living in a surveillance state. theres cameras in the streets theres someone live streeming. 

R: yeah youre in public

A: yeah but my job is to document everything and then my ediotrs job to say were going to show these photos were not going to show those photos. i can take photos of anything because unless there is a warrent to see my SD card, police officers cannot go through my photos. i do take that into consideration when im making photos public, making sure that no one is going to get in trouble for something. but that is definitely always a consideration. im also an activist im also an organizer im also involved in things. so i wouldnt want that to happen to me. that being said if i am there as a reporter, my job is to document...soooooo.....

c: yeah cover your face or something (idk cant make it out exactly)

A: yeah, if youre going to participate in extracurricular activities and you dont want people to know youre participation you have to take the consideration of we are in a survelence state. theres always someone live streaming

C:yeah, i did like the thought though about how you can capture what is going on without the human subject....or the focus being on it..like that is not necessarily maybe the most important piece?

A: with that being said, we are capturing emotions and its hard to show an emotion without showing a face. or if you see a face you see an expression and that is the strongest way to communicate. its a really fine line. it gets considered. it gets considered heavily. but in my position,i have to ask...what is the.... i am an advocate for my story.... so what is the right call? is this photo that is going to show someones face going to do justice or can i tell the story without showing the face. those are lines that i am constantly trying to figure out as I'm documenting things on the streets.

R: and then the last question that I have to round it out. 

In an artistic sense then whether it is just for yourself or for a journalistic purpose... does the way that you approach your subject in your artistic craft change?

A: uhmmmmm....so....for street photography, yes. I am looking for something that speaks to the human condition

i hate using that word because it sounds too grandiose or whatever but im here to document

i was having this conversation with someone where my photos, my street photography, is not relevant right now. it will be relevant in 30 years. so im working right now for 30 years in the future. when we go, oh what is happening during the genocide, when we go there was no one fighting against the genoicdial state of isreal. and its like no there were and i have proof of them.

R: like an archival purpose?

A: yeah, yeah exactly. that is how i see the purpose of my street photography

When I am doing photo journalism...sooo there is this essay....it kind of ties back to before when we were talking about inspiration. there is this typography essay called the crystal goblet. When you're talking about typography its just letters, arranging letters, picking the right font but it is so important in the way that you tell the story with how you do that. because you want typography to be a crystal goblet when you're drinking wine. So when youre drinking wine from a gold cup you cant see the wine inside. you cant see it. It's a beautiful cup, a beautiful golden cup but you are missing part of the experience of wine which is the physical texture of it. or if youre using this elaborate thing that makes it difficult to drink the wine, it's hindering your experience of drinking. when youre drinking from a crystal goblet the purpose of the goblet is to hold the wine and for you to be able to basically ignore it completely. the best way to do it is with something that you dont even think about so you are enjoying all the qualities of wine without thinking about the glass you're using. so it is the same thing as photography. as a journalist you want to create something that is well crafted but what I want is for people to not look at the photos....not get distracted by the editing...by all these things but to just feel like they were there and they are able to take in visually with the text...kind of what happened. So when youre reading, youre seeing, even if you are not reading....you are seeing things that will tell the story of the event that i was covering.

I guess to summarize... when i am doing journalism, the idea is that you dont even feel like its a photo. youre just looking at an event. 

C: mhmmm

R: cool

us: damn